Comments on: The Lion King

By: shellshear

shellshear — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 12:54:28 +0000

Yes – they symbolism was clearly just a visual pun, and one I’d attributed to a similar parade scene in “The Wall”, which was almost certainly also derived from the same source.
I suspect all genuine evil becomes mocked over time, no matter how bad it originally was. Pirates, for example. It’s interesting that the defence mechanism of overcoming fear of evil also leads to complacency.

By: John Orr

John Orr — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:53:36 +0000

Regarding the discussion about the Nazi symbolism, I think the scene where the hyenas parade past Scar is closely modeled on scenes from Leni Riefenstahl’s film Triumph of the Will. Now this is a pretty famous movie in cinema history so I’m sure the intention is just to make an arch quotation that will be picked up by the film buffs and missed by the children. Still, I have to admit (as I’m watching the movie at least once a day with my 2-year old) that it makes me queasy that it maybe trivializes the Nazis. Not that they don’t deserve mockery, but that it makes them seem like comic bad guys instead of genuine, adult evil.

By: JingFang

JingFang — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 19:54:04 +0000

well i think the LK was pretty good, me and my gf are enjoy it.. g/j DIney !!! we need you eh!!

By: Protagoras

Protagoras — Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:32:35 +0000

i like the idea of simba as the anti-hamlet. i suppose it makes disney the anti-shakespeare, which i approve very much……
i couldn’t agree more about Protagoras, i take his thinking very seriously as an advance in moral philosophy. on a serious note, i did some research in this area, and ended up re-framing protagorean thought as a practical philosophy aimed at engaging actively in social and political life in order to transform the public arena for the better. it all hinges on Protagoras’ use of the words “metron” (measure) and “poiesis” (make) in the original fragments that remain of the language he used- in pre-classical greek culture they carry strong connotations of active engagement with a moral purpose. in later interpretations filtered fron Plato and Aristotle, Protagoras always comes out entailing a weak relativism and/or nihilism, when if you go back to the original words and interpret according to pre-Platonic thinking you get a far richer reading that fits in with the modern pragmatism of richard rorty, for example.

By: Dr Clam

Dr Clam — Thu, 25 Jan 2007 02:36:45 +0000

Hamlet the best piece of writing in the English Language? How could you have forgotten the lyrics to the Cockroaches’ ‘She’s the One”?

I will accept the ‘withdrawal and return’ paradigm as central to Hamlet and will redeploy to the assertion that Hamlet’s journey to embrace physical and spiritual annihilation is the antithesis of Simba’s journey to embrace traditional veldt values, and hence ‘The Lion King’ is in its essence the antitype of Hamlet.

Parenthetically, my postmodernist hat allows me to say that, even if you consider yourself to a sophist and your words to be satire, “man is the measure of all things etc…” is still a profound image of truth.

By: Protagoras

Protagoras — Wed, 24 Jan 2007 15:21:51 +0000

i think your reading of the withdrawal/return paradigm is correct, and it can be applied to Hamlet. it makes for uncomfortable viewing, but the transformation he’s undergone is to thoroughly embrace the notion of physical and spiritual annhilation. at the start of the play, he’s flirting with this, but by the end it has become not a philosophical conundrum to be explored but a suffocating reality to be effected. he has finally become ready to act, this is why he comes back to the castle- as such this fits perfectly into toynbee’s archetype. hamlet begins by toying with the notion of ‘not-being’, the key Parmenidean dichotomy (being/not-being) that later gets satirised by the sophist Protagoras (“man is the measure of all things, of those that are, that they are, and those that are not, that they are not”), but ends up in a deadly spiritual morass that cannot be expressed in words. the only route is through self-destruction: hamlet clearly returns having resolved his journey- it does not make happy viewing, but the language that takes us there is inexpressably beautiful. this is what makes hamlet the best piece of writing in the english language: it it is the perfect marriage of style, substance and artistic intent, all three reinforcing the whole seemlessly.

you know, i’m prone to lefty rants myself- so anytime you want a target you’ll find me a willing foil….

By: Dr Clam

Dr Clam — Wed, 24 Jan 2007 00:08:37 +0000

I just don’t think ‘hanging around near the castle pretending to be mad, then getting better’ really qualifies as withdrawal and return- Hamlet does not leave his original milieu to engage with and be transformed by the Other, then return to apply his transforming insights, Perhaps I have forgotten what actually happens in Hamlet, and there is a bit where Hamlet ducks out for a spot of enlightenment. Or perhaps I am interpreting Toynbee’s ‘withdrawal and return’ paradigm too unimaginitively…

(As for the email bit, I think Androo was afraid I was going to start some Neoconservative rant, when in reality I was just being silly…)

By: Protagoras

Protagoras — Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:23:13 +0000

but it’s not post-modern if the withdrawal actually takes place: Hamlet does in fact leave the scene and then returns in the play; which is crucial to the narrative. am i missing something?
i can see the paralleles with the Wilson administration….i’m going to concede that point- i just like to have a go at Bush whenever i can.

what do is it mean when the “political bit goes to email”? i’m new to this site, not sure about the protocol….

By: shellshear

shellshear — Mon, 04 Dec 2006 10:46:46 +0000

…and that’s where the political bit of this thread goes to email, thanks!

By: Dr Clam

Dr Clam — Mon, 04 Dec 2006 06:47:29 +0000

I don’t subscribe to this postmodernist take on the ‘withdrawal and return paradigm’ where you don’t actually go anywhere, Protagoras, so I reject its application to Hamlet. Categorically, yey.
And I think the U.S. Presidential parallels in the Lion King are clearly Woodrow Wilson, not Bush.