Comments on: Highlander 2 http://www.filmforensics.com/autopsy/2006/08/14/highlander-2/ Film Forensic Investigations & Autopsies Our Specialty Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:27:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Lexifab http://www.filmforensics.com/autopsy/2006/08/14/highlander-2/#comment-2552 Lexifab Wed, 25 Oct 2006 21:52:20 +0000 http://www.filmforensics.com/autopsy/2006/08/14/highlander-2/#comment-2552 I'm coming a little late to the party here, but yes, this is a far more watchable arrangement that the screaming incoherence of the screened version. (Winston, remember Jimbo's hoarse verdict? "CHEAP AND DUMB!") I particularly like the "reincarnated immortal (Atlanteans*)" idea. And the idea of killing people in order to have them immortally reincarnated. Why the mortal versions of Katana's immortal henchmen just happen to be hanging around New York waiting to be decapitated can be handwaved easily enough with the old "unconsciously drawn to the scene of the Game" schtick. Like Shelly, I'm still not 100% convinced about Katana's motivation for taking over the corporation board. Now if he knew prior to that point - or suspected - that the Shield was 100% Quickening-powered, then it makes sense that he would want to place himself in a position where he would have the resources to confirm it. He might reasonably believe that he could find a way to grab it for himself without having to bother with all that messy decapitating. Or give him a genius science-birdman sidekick/grand vizier who could work it all out and make an ill-judged grab for power, if you want to slow him down from acting on the knowledge too soon. Or - it does make some sort of sense that Katana, being an Evil Overlord himself, would make a play for what looks like the biggest local power base. It could be justified with some dialogue about him having to establish a power base in the old-fashioned warlord (of Atlantis?) style. * I'm coming from an "all sufficiently advanced ancient civilisations are indistinguishable from Atlantis" perspective. I’m coming a little late to the party here, but yes, this is a far more watchable arrangement that the screaming incoherence of the screened version. (Winston, remember Jimbo’s hoarse verdict? “CHEAP AND DUMB!”)

I particularly like the “reincarnated immortal (Atlanteans*)” idea. And the idea of killing people in order to have them immortally reincarnated. Why the mortal versions of Katana’s immortal henchmen just happen to be hanging around New York waiting to be decapitated can be handwaved easily enough with the old “unconsciously drawn to the scene of the Game” schtick.

Like Shelly, I’m still not 100% convinced about Katana’s motivation for taking over the corporation board. Now if he knew prior to that point - or suspected - that the Shield was 100% Quickening-powered, then it makes sense that he would want to place himself in a position where he would have the resources to confirm it. He might reasonably believe that he could find a way to grab it for himself without having to bother with all that messy decapitating. Or give him a genius science-birdman sidekick/grand vizier who could work it all out and make an ill-judged grab for power, if you want to slow him down from acting on the knowledge too soon.

Or - it does make some sort of sense that Katana, being an Evil Overlord himself, would make a play for what looks like the biggest local power base. It could be justified with some dialogue about him having to establish a power base in the old-fashioned warlord (of Atlantis?) style.

* I’m coming from an “all sufficiently advanced ancient civilisations are indistinguishable from Atlantis” perspective.

]]> By: winston http://www.filmforensics.com/autopsy/2006/08/14/highlander-2/#comment-2145 winston Fri, 18 Aug 2006 06:18:56 +0000 http://www.filmforensics.com/autopsy/2006/08/14/highlander-2/#comment-2145 Great retro-fit Jon, to what must certainly be the most difficult FF imaginable. To make any kind of logic from the mess that H2 is, but you've done a brilliant effort in tying theme and plot together. Makes me want to go back and watch it again so I can think about this FF at the same time. Great retro-fit Jon, to what must certainly be the most difficult FF imaginable.
To make any kind of logic from the mess that H2 is, but you’ve done a brilliant effort in tying theme and plot together.
Makes me want to go back and watch it again so I can think about this FF at the same time.

]]> By: shellshear http://www.filmforensics.com/autopsy/2006/08/14/highlander-2/#comment-2142 shellshear Thu, 17 Aug 2006 12:45:38 +0000 http://www.filmforensics.com/autopsy/2006/08/14/highlander-2/#comment-2142 True, true. It probably brings up more problems than it solves, *unless* Katana brings back the followers, doesn't tell them about the Quickening - remember, the Highlander didn't know about it until he was told, so it's not something instinctive - and then kills them himself. To have some quickenings of his own. In fact, he could keep them around for a while, helping him out, until he needs them more for their Quickening than for their services. Then, snickersnee. He could even pretend to care for their wellbeing, stopping them from fighting the Highlander, and keeping them away from him - only using them to fight the company (so that Katana's entrance into the company is a little more confrontational). True, true. It probably brings up more problems than it solves, *unless* Katana brings back the followers, doesn’t tell them about the Quickening - remember, the Highlander didn’t know about it until he was told, so it’s not something instinctive - and then kills them himself. To have some quickenings of his own.

In fact, he could keep them around for a while, helping him out, until he needs them more for their Quickening than for their services. Then, snickersnee. He could even pretend to care for their wellbeing, stopping them from fighting the Highlander, and keeping them away from him - only using them to fight the company (so that Katana’s entrance into the company is a little more confrontational).

]]> By: Jonathan Blum http://www.filmforensics.com/autopsy/2006/08/14/highlander-2/#comment-2141 Jonathan Blum Thu, 17 Aug 2006 12:03:00 +0000 http://www.filmforensics.com/autopsy/2006/08/14/highlander-2/#comment-2141 Oooh -- I like the idea of Katana having a bunch of followers! It gives him something else to do while Conner's running around advancing the plot. (It seems like an obvious move for him to get some more cannon fodder, like he did with the two bird-skatepunks, but having thrown two Quickenings in Conner's direction already he might not want to give him anything more.) There's that interesting tension where everyone he "recruits" to follow him has obviously divided loyalties, if they swore an oath to him ages ago but now There Can Be Only One. Not only would they want to pick him off, they'd want to pick each other off as well... he'd have to sell them on the idea that Conner is a greater threat than anything. Either that, or lie about the whole Only One bit. And the released Quickenings levelling them all somehow is a nice idea... not sure if it's consistent with the way the whole Highlander thing works, but I'm sure you could come up with some logic. I think they really need to up the Armageddon factor at the end -- a sort of Quickening mushroom cloud from which only Conner can walk away... Oooh — I like the idea of Katana having a bunch of followers! It gives him something else to do while Conner’s running around advancing the plot. (It seems like an obvious move for him to get some more cannon fodder, like he did with the two bird-skatepunks, but having thrown two Quickenings in Conner’s direction already he might not want to give him anything more.)

There’s that interesting tension where everyone he “recruits” to follow him has obviously divided loyalties, if they swore an oath to him ages ago but now There Can Be Only One. Not only would they want to pick him off, they’d want to pick each other off as well… he’d have to sell them on the idea that Conner is a greater threat than anything. Either that, or lie about the whole Only One bit.

And the released Quickenings levelling them all somehow is a nice idea… not sure if it’s consistent with the way the whole Highlander thing works, but I’m sure you could come up with some logic. I think they really need to up the Armageddon factor at the end — a sort of Quickening mushroom cloud from which only Conner can walk away…

]]> By: shellshear http://www.filmforensics.com/autopsy/2006/08/14/highlander-2/#comment-2132 shellshear Mon, 14 Aug 2006 06:49:38 +0000 http://www.filmforensics.com/autopsy/2006/08/14/highlander-2/#comment-2132 Um, me again. I think that the Conner's escape at the warehouse was supposedly because Katana was much higher up, and would take a long time to descend that far, unless he jumped (and then suffered similarly to Conner). But it wasn't very clear. It did occur to me several times that the desperate clinging-onto-gantries was pointless, and that they should really just let go, cop the damage, and then run off. They could have even done that deliberately (especially with the villains) if they happened to have lost their swords over the edge. But I suppose this was done enough in the first film, and they did have their big "back from the dead" moment with the Bonnie & Clyde homage. Um, me again. I think that the Conner’s escape at the warehouse was supposedly because Katana was much higher up, and would take a long time to descend that far, unless he jumped (and then suffered similarly to Conner). But it wasn’t very clear.
It did occur to me several times that the desperate clinging-onto-gantries was pointless, and that they should really just let go, cop the damage, and then run off. They could have even done that deliberately (especially with the villains) if they happened to have lost their swords over the edge. But I suppose this was done enough in the first film, and they did have their big “back from the dead” moment with the Bonnie & Clyde homage.

]]> By: shellshear http://www.filmforensics.com/autopsy/2006/08/14/highlander-2/#comment-2131 shellshear Mon, 14 Aug 2006 06:44:02 +0000 http://www.filmforensics.com/autopsy/2006/08/14/highlander-2/#comment-2131 Another feature - if shutting down the shield releases the Quickenings, we could have a veritable army of ancients ("resurrected" by Katana) against Conner at the end, and have the Quickenings deal with them all... Another feature - if shutting down the shield releases the Quickenings, we could have a veritable army of ancients (”resurrected” by Katana) against Conner at the end, and have the Quickenings deal with them all…

]]> By: shellshear http://www.filmforensics.com/autopsy/2006/08/14/highlander-2/#comment-2130 shellshear Mon, 14 Aug 2006 06:40:28 +0000 http://www.filmforensics.com/autopsy/2006/08/14/highlander-2/#comment-2130 Brilliant. I particularly love the reincarnation angle. Another possibility here is that Ramirez is another reincarnation, just an ordinary human born at the moment Conner wins the Game (and seen 50 years later - if Conner was in his early 20s, that would have his old self being about 70, which I suspect is what they were trying for. Though with that makeup, god knows what age he was really supposed to be.) We could see quite a few of the old enemies working as ordinary humans, if we were prepared to push the reincarnation angle further. We might see the Kurgan innocently working as a priest (also aged 50) or if karma has any role, as a toilet cleaner. It reinforces the iconic idea that anybody could be an Immortal and not know it. Tying the Prize to the Ozone shield is also a great piece of retrofitting, as is the idea that Katana has joined because he was deposed. I think this really knocks over the central nonsense of the plot. One not-yet-convincing bit is Katana's reasons for crashing the board meeting. Even with Conner plotting against the Corperation, it might be good for him to specifically know (or notice) the vast surveillance facilities at their disposal. Another terrific retrofit is having Ramirez sacrifice himself to Conner. I like the idea that Conner would be unwitting in this. Ramirez might tell Conner that he knows a way out; that a perfect strike against the centre of the fan at precisely the right time will do the trick - but Conner must do it blindfolded, and at the precise moment Ramirez instructs him. The audience is in Conner's shoes, and it looks like it's going to be a cheesy escape, until Ramirez says to strike, Conner swings, and then takes off the blindfold - the fan is still a metre further up, and Louise is tied up and gagged, staring horrified at him, and Ramirez is standing there, a thin red line across his neck, smiling sadly... Brilliant. I particularly love the reincarnation angle. Another possibility here is that Ramirez is another reincarnation, just an ordinary human born at the moment Conner wins the Game (and seen 50 years later - if Conner was in his early 20s, that would have his old self being about 70, which I suspect is what they were trying for. Though with that makeup, god knows what age he was really supposed to be.)
We could see quite a few of the old enemies working as ordinary humans, if we were prepared to push the reincarnation angle further. We might see the Kurgan innocently working as a priest (also aged 50) or if karma has any role, as a toilet cleaner. It reinforces the iconic idea that anybody could be an Immortal and not know it.
Tying the Prize to the Ozone shield is also a great piece of retrofitting, as is the idea that Katana has joined because he was deposed. I think this really knocks over the central nonsense of the plot.
One not-yet-convincing bit is Katana’s reasons for crashing the board meeting. Even with Conner plotting against the Corperation, it might be good for him to specifically know (or notice) the vast surveillance facilities at their disposal.
Another terrific retrofit is having Ramirez sacrifice himself to Conner. I like the idea that Conner would be unwitting in this. Ramirez might tell Conner that he knows a way out; that a perfect strike against the centre of the fan at precisely the right time will do the trick - but Conner must do it blindfolded, and at the precise moment Ramirez instructs him. The audience is in Conner’s shoes, and it looks like it’s going to be a cheesy escape, until Ramirez says to strike, Conner swings, and then takes off the blindfold - the fan is still a metre further up, and Louise is tied up and gagged, staring horrified at him, and Ramirez is standing there, a thin red line across his neck, smiling sadly…

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